Of all the horror things, I strangely only enjoy the gothic. It’s just a much subtler, seeping, creepingly romantic, and hauntingly beautiful thing. Never does it dip into the grotesque, nor the terror, and yet it is even darker than those rivals for its philosophical angst. We need to bring gothic back!
I'm a huge Gothic fan for sure. This horror / terror distinction actually comes from Gothic fiction. Radcliffe helped pioneer British Gothic fiction. Her horror/terror essay was in part a response to Matthew Lewis's gory (for its time) Gothic book The Monk, which she didn't like for being so overt in it's depictions of evil acts. So she was advocating for her own type of atmospheric, subtle "terror."
But definitely what was considered overt horror vs. subtle terror in 1700/1800s is very different from today!
FWIW, I loved The Monk! I didn't even consider it horror or terror—but more in the "lovely, well-to-do young lady is imprisoned by evil schemers, but true love prevails" suspense genre (à la Le Fanu's Uncle Silas or Collins's The Woman in White). It had all of the tropes of a Gothic romance: long-lost relatives, disguises, castles, governesses, brigands, kidnappings, frightful tempests, evil innkeepers, both loyal and scheming servants, faintings (of men too, of course), a pregnant nun, a libidinous abbot, and an evil baronness—but also magic circles, midnight visits to crypts, barterings with demons, conjurings, magic mirrors, incantations, and an appearance by Lucifer himself. Oh, and poetry at the drop of a hat. What's not to love?!
Yes, I realized that when I was pitching my gothic novel to agents--all my comps were 100 years old! (Not a smart move 🤣) 18th century gothic doesn’t really exist anymore and 21st century horror is a completely different thing. Needless to say, it was hard to place my book on the market! ☺️
Really insightful! I wonder where on the continuum you might put weird lit and film - which also seem to fuse the grotesque and sublime. I'm thinking specifically of China Mieville, whose wonderful city New Crobuzon is set astride an enormous still-decaying carcass of some huge, ancient, fantastical creature. A movie which seems to fuse these elements (also using scale, setting, and psychology) is Dark City which uses a front of noir, but gradually transforms into something much more chilling and horrifying as we progress through its plot. Lastly, I'm going to plug a couple books that really pull off some of this by an author team who can be found @ismaebooks - Things They Buried and They Eat Their Own. Both books are wonderful genre mashups, but the first really sinks into this topic quite a bit. They won an Ippy award for TTB and I think you'd really enjoy it. Thanks!
I love the weird of course, and I think in general it tends to traffic in the sublime and the uncanny. Whether it's grotesque depends on the work in question probably. Movies like From Beyond certainly do. Other weird works are pretty firmly in the "terror" / uncanny camp with minimal clear descriptions of horror. If we were going through the VanderMeer's Weird anthology might be 50/50?
Great essay! This idea of the grotesque sublime is very useful. I love Caitlín R. Kiernan, whose work (especially their short stories) is, I would say, almost obsessively devoted to the grotesque sublime.
Wonderful essay. (Thanks!) I've always struggled to understand the differences between horror and terror, as well as understand the "sublime." I grew up in Niagara Falls (the Canadian side), and I vividly recall taking our oldest son, who was then about three years old (he's 28 now) to see the Falls. As I carried him from a parking lot toward the Falls and we began to hear its thunderous roar, he started struggling in my arms. When we finally reached my favorite vantage point near the brink of the Horseshoe Falls, he completely freaked out, twisting violently in my arms and even clawing at my face. We retreated, of course, and he quickly reverted to his normal obedient self. I've never forgotten that moment, which I suppose was a pure display of terror in the face of the sublime.
As a screenwriter, I actually think *all* genre - especially capital-G Genre - is defined by the effect, emotional and intellectual. All the other things such as settings, tropes, plots, character types are all the leavers to achieve that effect. They become codified in genre because they're effective at creating that effect.
Of all the horror things, I strangely only enjoy the gothic. It’s just a much subtler, seeping, creepingly romantic, and hauntingly beautiful thing. Never does it dip into the grotesque, nor the terror, and yet it is even darker than those rivals for its philosophical angst. We need to bring gothic back!
I'm a huge Gothic fan for sure. This horror / terror distinction actually comes from Gothic fiction. Radcliffe helped pioneer British Gothic fiction. Her horror/terror essay was in part a response to Matthew Lewis's gory (for its time) Gothic book The Monk, which she didn't like for being so overt in it's depictions of evil acts. So she was advocating for her own type of atmospheric, subtle "terror."
But definitely what was considered overt horror vs. subtle terror in 1700/1800s is very different from today!
FWIW, I loved The Monk! I didn't even consider it horror or terror—but more in the "lovely, well-to-do young lady is imprisoned by evil schemers, but true love prevails" suspense genre (à la Le Fanu's Uncle Silas or Collins's The Woman in White). It had all of the tropes of a Gothic romance: long-lost relatives, disguises, castles, governesses, brigands, kidnappings, frightful tempests, evil innkeepers, both loyal and scheming servants, faintings (of men too, of course), a pregnant nun, a libidinous abbot, and an evil baronness—but also magic circles, midnight visits to crypts, barterings with demons, conjurings, magic mirrors, incantations, and an appearance by Lucifer himself. Oh, and poetry at the drop of a hat. What's not to love?!
Oh I’m intrigued! That sounds amazing!
Yes, I realized that when I was pitching my gothic novel to agents--all my comps were 100 years old! (Not a smart move 🤣) 18th century gothic doesn’t really exist anymore and 21st century horror is a completely different thing. Needless to say, it was hard to place my book on the market! ☺️
Really insightful! I wonder where on the continuum you might put weird lit and film - which also seem to fuse the grotesque and sublime. I'm thinking specifically of China Mieville, whose wonderful city New Crobuzon is set astride an enormous still-decaying carcass of some huge, ancient, fantastical creature. A movie which seems to fuse these elements (also using scale, setting, and psychology) is Dark City which uses a front of noir, but gradually transforms into something much more chilling and horrifying as we progress through its plot. Lastly, I'm going to plug a couple books that really pull off some of this by an author team who can be found @ismaebooks - Things They Buried and They Eat Their Own. Both books are wonderful genre mashups, but the first really sinks into this topic quite a bit. They won an Ippy award for TTB and I think you'd really enjoy it. Thanks!
I love the weird of course, and I think in general it tends to traffic in the sublime and the uncanny. Whether it's grotesque depends on the work in question probably. Movies like From Beyond certainly do. Other weird works are pretty firmly in the "terror" / uncanny camp with minimal clear descriptions of horror. If we were going through the VanderMeer's Weird anthology might be 50/50?
But agree Mieville goes there in his works.
"Sublime & Uncanny" Nice! Thanks!
Great essay! This idea of the grotesque sublime is very useful. I love Caitlín R. Kiernan, whose work (especially their short stories) is, I would say, almost obsessively devoted to the grotesque sublime.
Wonderful essay. (Thanks!) I've always struggled to understand the differences between horror and terror, as well as understand the "sublime." I grew up in Niagara Falls (the Canadian side), and I vividly recall taking our oldest son, who was then about three years old (he's 28 now) to see the Falls. As I carried him from a parking lot toward the Falls and we began to hear its thunderous roar, he started struggling in my arms. When we finally reached my favorite vantage point near the brink of the Horseshoe Falls, he completely freaked out, twisting violently in my arms and even clawing at my face. We retreated, of course, and he quickly reverted to his normal obedient self. I've never forgotten that moment, which I suppose was a pure display of terror in the face of the sublime.
Great piece!
As a screenwriter, I actually think *all* genre - especially capital-G Genre - is defined by the effect, emotional and intellectual. All the other things such as settings, tropes, plots, character types are all the leavers to achieve that effect. They become codified in genre because they're effective at creating that effect.
We did a podcast on this, if you're interested: http://draft-zero.com/2022/dz-87/