i honestly never even thought it was possible NOT to know The Odyssey didn't exist, it is not American, and is a classic of world literature. How is that possible and if you didn't know, you would publically state it.
It's, unfortunately, the parents. Classmates of my kids don't know Lord of the Rings, Classics and their authors, important movies of the past and so on. They only know their feeds and troughs in Tiktok, Epic Games, their BS Youtubers and so on. Because their parents detest parenting and relegated all trading in tradition to the omnipresent screens. This is for many a cultural cut-off moment: their new mythos is whatever occupied them on the screen when young, they reference this cultural garbage like generations before them referenced the classics and are bewildered at the reactions of older people. I wonder about the long term effects of this. But as for me and my house: I pass the traditions on.
I imagine some has to be the schools too. I went to public school in rural Virginia, but we still read Antigone and talked about Greek stories. From what I hear, reading full works--especially older ones but really any--has declined a lot and students now are taught excerpts, mostly from more contemporary stuff.
Yeah this is one of those things where you'd like to hope some internal intelligence would register as "hmm, I don't know about this thing. Should I have known about this thing? It seems perhaps I should have known about this thing."
When 11 years old, we went on a surprise vacation to Greece for five weeks where my parents would work and I was on my own on a remote island. My parents bought the Iliad for me and I read it on the way and in the room where I stayed, playing with my makeshift "greek" lego soldiers (actually medieval knights cut and glued and painted by myself to represent my new heroes.) It was a magical vacation full of meaning and the veil that separated me from the ancient world was so thin I looked for foot prints of sandals in the brushes and for triremes out in the beautiful aegean sea. That book made all the difference.
As an Odyssey re-reader since way back, and an Iliad never-reader (!), I recommend the Introduction to Emily Wilson’s translation for a fascinating and engaging overview of the poem’s content and context.
Talk about whetting one's appetite for a text! This was as glorious an endorsement for a classic text as one is going to find. I, too, have sadly yet to enjoy the original text. My knowledge only reaches the depths of a abbreviated retelling of Greek myths we read in school - and countless cultural references in literature and music. It's absolutely unfathomable not having heard about the Odyssey as an adult human that has finished high school in a developed country. This stuff is part of our cultural bedrock for a reason.
I have the privilege of teaching The Odyssey and it is structured chiastically. I'm pretty certain Nolan is familiar with this ancient technique since much of his filmography is built off the chiasm. I'm interested in seeing what he does with it (though it will inevitably be Modernized).
Respect. Wonderful introduction and coverage of the Greek gods etc. You'd like to hope that this (and the sequel) get awareness out to younger generations.
1. Always go to the primary source, why go to second hand sources and spinoffs that say the same thing ? for example hero character in classic tales; or craft books on writing when Aristotle on poetics expounded the art millennia ago. You can beat the originals.
2. Atsuhiro Yoshida's: Good Night Tokyo, first English translation: a collection of stories that you read and realize they all have intersections and it is a Novel that you are reading after all. It is a very enjoyable story structure and I finished the book in one sitting though the stories are banal and very outlandish. The magic of fiction.
It has all been done before you discover later that they have been subsequently flogged to death thereafter.
After the Odyssey, a short read that I highly recommend is "Odysseus’ Scar", the first chapter in Erich Auerbach’s book Mimesis. It’s a literary criticism classic (to the extent there is such a thing), contrasting the viewpoints and styles of the Odyssey and the Old Testament. Very mind-expanding for writers thinking about POV!
I teach a course called Epic Echoes, which begins with the Odyssey and ends with Marissa Levien's The World Gives Way, stopping for Ulysses, Beloved, As I Lay Dying, Observatory Mansions, The Wizard of Oz, and a few other epic journey novels. It's my favorite thing to teach.
One thing about repeated clauses like wine-dark sea: The poem was originally performed orally, by traveling bards, who essentially orated the poem over a long weekend. Because they needed to fill in rhythmically as they performed, so that the sentences would scan aurally, there were a number of set phrases called epithets. These formulas could be hauled out while speaking to correct a rhythm, but they also served to render consistency. Different bards might alter the story in one way or another, but they'd likely always lean on thoughtful Telemachaus or prudent Penelope or a black or hollow ship.
Audiences knew the story, and all the players. By the time Homer's version was written down, the Odyssey and Iliad, and many other lost aspects of the Trojan Way story, had been honed "on the road" for a few hundred years.
Husband listened-to-and-read James Joyce's *Ulysses* and *Finnegans Wake" within the past few years and he's said (something along the lines of) that they're mind-blowingly psychedelic. Appreciate this further prompt.
Yes, yes, great post, thank you, but really I came here to exclaim Holy Mother of Landru, your new book cover is AMAZING. It speaks so much, from the colors, to the font and layout and panels and images. It speaks volumes before I know a single thing about the novel itself. Wow. Just wow.
Maybe I'm in too deep but as a (1) graduate of a Great Books school and (2) current rabid Epic the Musical fan, people don't know about the Odyssey? It's practically The Hero's Journey!
Also Emily Wilson's translation is amazing, as is Fagels'.
The thought of anyone not knowing about the Odyssey makes me want to throw up.
I read for my English B.A. Loved it!
According to stats, people are no longer going to college....
i honestly never even thought it was possible NOT to know The Odyssey didn't exist, it is not American, and is a classic of world literature. How is that possible and if you didn't know, you would publically state it.
Yeah it truly seems impossible to not have heard of it. Makes me wonder what is being taught in schools these days...
It's, unfortunately, the parents. Classmates of my kids don't know Lord of the Rings, Classics and their authors, important movies of the past and so on. They only know their feeds and troughs in Tiktok, Epic Games, their BS Youtubers and so on. Because their parents detest parenting and relegated all trading in tradition to the omnipresent screens. This is for many a cultural cut-off moment: their new mythos is whatever occupied them on the screen when young, they reference this cultural garbage like generations before them referenced the classics and are bewildered at the reactions of older people. I wonder about the long term effects of this. But as for me and my house: I pass the traditions on.
I imagine some has to be the schools too. I went to public school in rural Virginia, but we still read Antigone and talked about Greek stories. From what I hear, reading full works--especially older ones but really any--has declined a lot and students now are taught excerpts, mostly from more contemporary stuff.
Yeah this is one of those things where you'd like to hope some internal intelligence would register as "hmm, I don't know about this thing. Should I have known about this thing? It seems perhaps I should have known about this thing."
I read a classic novel translation --don't recall which exactly -- about twenty years ago and loved it.
I recently read this graphic novel adaption by Gareth Hinds with my kids, too. It's awesome: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-odyssey-gareth-hinds/6389599
ha cool. Someone just told me about a middle grade Beowulf adaptation that seemed fun, if you are looking for more kids versions of classics https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250776297/beawolf/
Nice -- I'll check it out!
Didn't know about this graphic novel version, thanks Amran.
Sure thing -- it's a blast. The Iliad adaption is also fantastic.
When 11 years old, we went on a surprise vacation to Greece for five weeks where my parents would work and I was on my own on a remote island. My parents bought the Iliad for me and I read it on the way and in the room where I stayed, playing with my makeshift "greek" lego soldiers (actually medieval knights cut and glued and painted by myself to represent my new heroes.) It was a magical vacation full of meaning and the veil that separated me from the ancient world was so thin I looked for foot prints of sandals in the brushes and for triremes out in the beautiful aegean sea. That book made all the difference.
As an Odyssey re-reader since way back, and an Iliad never-reader (!), I recommend the Introduction to Emily Wilson’s translation for a fascinating and engaging overview of the poem’s content and context.
Emily Wilson's Iliad is stunning!
Talk about whetting one's appetite for a text! This was as glorious an endorsement for a classic text as one is going to find. I, too, have sadly yet to enjoy the original text. My knowledge only reaches the depths of a abbreviated retelling of Greek myths we read in school - and countless cultural references in literature and music. It's absolutely unfathomable not having heard about the Odyssey as an adult human that has finished high school in a developed country. This stuff is part of our cultural bedrock for a reason.
I have the privilege of teaching The Odyssey and it is structured chiastically. I'm pretty certain Nolan is familiar with this ancient technique since much of his filmography is built off the chiasm. I'm interested in seeing what he does with it (though it will inevitably be Modernized).
I remember as a little girl in Barbados reading the Odyssey and fascinated by all of Odysseus’ adventures. We also read The Canterbury Tales.
"I have played Hades."
Respect. Wonderful introduction and coverage of the Greek gods etc. You'd like to hope that this (and the sequel) get awareness out to younger generations.
I agree with most commentators.
A few points.
1. Always go to the primary source, why go to second hand sources and spinoffs that say the same thing ? for example hero character in classic tales; or craft books on writing when Aristotle on poetics expounded the art millennia ago. You can beat the originals.
2. Atsuhiro Yoshida's: Good Night Tokyo, first English translation: a collection of stories that you read and realize they all have intersections and it is a Novel that you are reading after all. It is a very enjoyable story structure and I finished the book in one sitting though the stories are banal and very outlandish. The magic of fiction.
It has all been done before you discover later that they have been subsequently flogged to death thereafter.
After the Odyssey, a short read that I highly recommend is "Odysseus’ Scar", the first chapter in Erich Auerbach’s book Mimesis. It’s a literary criticism classic (to the extent there is such a thing), contrasting the viewpoints and styles of the Odyssey and the Old Testament. Very mind-expanding for writers thinking about POV!
I teach a course called Epic Echoes, which begins with the Odyssey and ends with Marissa Levien's The World Gives Way, stopping for Ulysses, Beloved, As I Lay Dying, Observatory Mansions, The Wizard of Oz, and a few other epic journey novels. It's my favorite thing to teach.
One thing about repeated clauses like wine-dark sea: The poem was originally performed orally, by traveling bards, who essentially orated the poem over a long weekend. Because they needed to fill in rhythmically as they performed, so that the sentences would scan aurally, there were a number of set phrases called epithets. These formulas could be hauled out while speaking to correct a rhythm, but they also served to render consistency. Different bards might alter the story in one way or another, but they'd likely always lean on thoughtful Telemachaus or prudent Penelope or a black or hollow ship.
Audiences knew the story, and all the players. By the time Homer's version was written down, the Odyssey and Iliad, and many other lost aspects of the Trojan Way story, had been honed "on the road" for a few hundred years.
Ooh, that sounds like an amazing class.
If you like the structure of The Odyssey, check out John Barth's story "Menalaiad" in LOST IN THE FUNHOUSE. Will blow your mind.
I read that collection in college, although don’t remember that story offhand. Will have to revisit again.
Husband listened-to-and-read James Joyce's *Ulysses* and *Finnegans Wake" within the past few years and he's said (something along the lines of) that they're mind-blowingly psychedelic. Appreciate this further prompt.
Yes, yes, great post, thank you, but really I came here to exclaim Holy Mother of Landru, your new book cover is AMAZING. It speaks so much, from the colors, to the font and layout and panels and images. It speaks volumes before I know a single thing about the novel itself. Wow. Just wow.
Ah, thank you so much! I can't take credit for the cover, but am very happy with how it came out!
Maybe I'm in too deep but as a (1) graduate of a Great Books school and (2) current rabid Epic the Musical fan, people don't know about the Odyssey? It's practically The Hero's Journey!
Also Emily Wilson's translation is amazing, as is Fagels'.